Horwath Spa Consulting

The two words ‘Spa’ and ‘Cuisine’, when combined instill numerous questions, together with expressions of fear and horror in the minds of many cooks and Chefs the world over.

This evolving style of cookery while so complimentary to the Spa Industry is yet to find its feet as a credible cuisine with many of our industry leaders, despite the efforts of a few dedicated Chefs who have clearly seen the simplicity of the cuisine and the benefits and supportive role that this has to the Spa industry as a whole.  While Spa Cuisine is slowly moving forward in an otherwise fast developing industry the few dedicated chefs who have seen it as an integral element and the cuisine as fully complimentary to the services being provided in the total mind, body and soul experience are at last starting to have an impact.

Even many of the world’s hotel chains are now adding dedicated spa cuisine dishes to their menus, unfortunately often with limited guidance being given to a reluctant Chef who does not understand the principles of the cuisine, nor the possible health benefits.  Nutritional information provided to the consumer on these menus can only be seen as highly questionable at best.  As with all food preparation unless you actually understand and care about what you are doing, the end result will not be to the wider expectation.

The basic elements of Spa Cuisine are simple; low fat, low sodium and low sugar.  This is not to say that fat, salt and/or sugar must be eliminated, but just that we over consume these elements in our normal diets and we would be a lot healthier if we took the effort to review and subsequently reduce the quantity that we consume.  From these basic elements you can then explore into areas such as low dairy and low gluten foods as these are generally accepted as the two food groups with which most people with food allergies also suffer and often unknowingly.

How can we reduce the amount of fat, salt and sugar in our diet?  This may be a lot simpler than you first thought.

Taking the low fat element, many cooks and Chefs are prone to throw their arms up in fear and horror and run from this method of meal preparation as fat is seen traditionally as the major flavour carrier in our food, and without it, our food is bland and tasteless.  This need not be the case, and if the fat is reduced, the flavour MUST be enhanced in other ways to counterbalance the sensory experience.  The addition of palate stimulants such as fresh herbs and spices or some lemon or lime juice/zest are some of the options that can quickly elevate a dish to one of grandeur.  Or, to reduce fat, it may be as simple as eliminating fat as a cooking medium.  Here, by ‘fat’ we mean ALL fats whether they are butter, margarine, oil or ghee – the fats you add to the pan before you put in the food to ‘fry’ or ‘swim’, depending on the quantity being used.  Instead, look again at the dish you are cooking.  Can it be cooked in a different medium?  Can it be steamed, poached, grilled or baked?  Deep-fried items which do not conform to the principles of healthy cooking can often be baked without an sufferance in quality or major change in the preparation and yet remain close to the more traditionally expected final result – without all that extra fat.

Trimming all meats of excessive fat will also greatly reduce your fat intake as will a review of the need to put butter, mayonnaise or margarine on your sandwich.  Depending on the filling being used, and providing you are using fresh breads, you more often than not do not need this additional fat layer, however if you really must add it, then keep it to a minimum as a ‘healthy’ salad sandwich can quickly become a regular ‘high-fat’ sandwich with the traditional ingredients of butter, mayonnaise and a thick slice of cheese.  One alternative to butter is steamed garlic – while containing a similar energy level, steamed garlic has virtually no fat, against five grams of fat per every teaspoon of butter.  However, it is also better to choose butter over margarine as while if may contain marginally more fat per gram than margarine, margarine is produced via a chemical process so what you loose in the extra few fat grams, you gain in the chemical intake reduction.

Yes, there are fats (especially oils such as canola and olive oil) that we have been told repeatedly that are “good for us” and we should include them in our diets, but for Spa Cuisine these should not be used as a cooking medium.  Besides, an inclusion of some fat in your diet is essential to a health metabolism, and it is just the excessive level that we consume toady is the problem.  Without fear of retribution from the oil industries, ignore the heavy advertising of you have been bombarded with and add only the smallest of amounts at the end and or drizzle over as a ‘sauce’ and you will be using only a fraction of the quantity that you would be if you were actually cooking your food in it, thus drastically reducing the quantity of fats that you consume, especially the saturated ones.  Also, do not get overly concerned with dishes such as fresh salmon (or any of the other oily fish for that matter) which at first impression, may have a high fat content, as the fat in salmon falls into the ‘good fat’ category of the essential omega fatty acids, and providing you do not pour over a butter sauce, you will be able to enjoy it without guilt.

One thing to remember, especially when cooking meats, is to under-cook them rather than over-cook them as over-cooking will remove the natural juices including the fats from the meat, resulting in dry and rubbery dining.

Going ‘vegetarian’ is not the obvious answer to low fat cooking either.  While vegetables themselves contain little of now fat, it is the sauces and condiments that we add that will very quickly add up the fat grams.  Vegetarian dishes such as those traditionally associated with Indian Cuisine can contain excessively high levels of added fats.  Nuts and dairy foods (if you are consuming milk products) can have high levels of fats also.  So, while on the surface, a vegetarian diet may seem to be ‘low’ fat, it is more often than not, not the case, unless the diet has been designed with the help of health professionals.

Spa Cuisine extols the benefits of a low sodium diet, but sodium occurs naturally in some foods, and while it is generally recognized that we need less than a quarter of the quantity which we customarily add to our food, we need to continuously monitor our level of consumption.  Salt, the fine white crystals, which are traditionally seen as a standard dining table ornament, when in its ‘pure’ form is the obvious main source of this, however do not forget the hidden forms as in those found in soy sauce or nam pla.  The reduction in your sodium intake is probably one of the most difficult things to do and is best done gradually whereby you progressively reduce the salt you are putting into your meals.  Use soy or nam pla if you wish, but again, keep their usage to a minimum and always choose the low-sodium varieties.  If you must use salt, a natural rock salt is much healthier than any of the table salts which generally contain other chemical compounds to make them free-flowing.

Moving to a healthier low sugar diet may initially seem drastic for the ‘sweet-tooth’ in the family; however sugar occurs naturally in many foods and in many forms, so the addition of sugar to your food should not be necessary providing you choose suitable replacements.  Sugar will give you a natural ‘high’, but this must be followed by a natural ‘low’, so you either continue to consume high levels of sugar, to maintain the ‘high’, or you better control you intake so that your body sugars remain on a more even level.  Again if you must use sugar, then I recommend you choose unprocessed sugars rather than the refined white sugar and you will at least have the benefits of some additional nutrients that are bleached out to make white sugar, while accepting that the energy levels are similar.  Honey and apple juice concentrate are great natural alternatives to using white sugar, especially the less refined varieties.  Apple juice concentrate is especially high in fibre, so although it can be difficult to find, it is well worth the effort.  Apple juice concentrate has the added advantage of being suitable as a substitute for oil in salad dressings.  Try making your regular vinaigrette salad dressing, but replace the oil with apple juice concentrate (use the1:8 concentrate).  Use to taste, but a good start point is 50% vinegar or citrus juice to 50% apple concentrate.  Add onions, garlic, tomatoes and herbs to develop you own special dressing.  Going back to the sugar issue, fresh fruits all contain differing levels of sugar in the form of fructose or fruit sugars.   Depending on the variety of fruit or even on the ripeness of a piece of fruit, the levels can change; basically the sweeter it tastes, the more sugar it contains.  Other things to consider are specific types of fruits.  Mangoes are a true delicacy especially to the Western palate, and while a half mango may contain a similar energy level to that of an apple, you must be very careful in your serving sizes for mangoes.  You will probably only eat one apple, but who can stop at just half a mango?  A similar problem occurs with bananas, so you can see that it is not always the actual food you are eating, it is often the quantity that you are consuming.

To further expand your own Spa Cuisine repertoire, you can now move on to reviewing individual food groups.  Dairy foods are a group that we need to study carefully, as being from an animal source they tend to be high in fats, especially saturated fats.  Yet, dairy foods are an excellent source of calcium besides containing many other nutritional benefits, so it can be important to look for low fat versions to maintain a balanced nutritional intake, unless you are under the guidance of a dietician who can advise of non dairy alternatives.  Use low fat yoghurt instead of full fat yoghurt, and low fat or skim milk instead of regular milk.  However special care must be taken if these are being used in cooked items.  Low fat milk will curdle quickly once subjected to heat, so always ensure that there is a binding agent such as corn starch or arrowroot present to prevent this occurring.  Soy milk may be a suitable alternative to dairy milk; however this has its drawbacks.  If drinking coffee and you add soy milk, if you are using a sweetener, then use sugar rather than honey as the honey will curdle the soy milk.  There are low fat cheeses on the market, but check the labels to see just how low that low is, as choosing another regular cheese may result in consuming a low fat level.

The checking of the food labels is an important part in your education process as you understanding the content of the food you are eating.  While we are seeking to consume as much fresh foods as possible, lifestyles can dictate that we will be including at least some processed foods in our diets.  This may only be breads and bakery items, but they still will probably contain much more salt, sugar and/or fat than you expected.  However do not fear.  What is the source of these items?  If the high fat content is coming from nuts or seeds such as sunflower or linseeds, then the fat content is very acceptable, providing it is not excessive, however if the source is lard or a processed margarine, then I would choose an alternative bread.  Use of breads that contain high levels of fiber (easily defined by the amount of texture that a bread has) are also of much greater nutritional benefit than those made from highly processed and chemically bleached white flour.  As with the mango and apples as mentioned above it is much more difficult to eat a quantity of bread containing lots of grains husks and seeds than a slice of white bread.

This can all seem very complicated, but the cooks & Chefs of today can just as easily prepare meals of Spa Cuisine in a commercial environment as those of a domestic environment.  The afore mentioned basic elements of this style of cooking are simple and nothing to be feared providing you are open minded in your approach to food and not set in your ways with methods of traditional cooking.

As the world continues to get smaller and we experience the wide and varied culinary repertoire that the world has to offer, many dishes may immediately fall within the guidelines of Spa Cuisine, but many more will require some adjustment.  Unfortunately we have increasingly taken the quick and easy way out of our dietary needs and are now paying the price with deteriorating world health levels.  Spa Cuisine will not address these in total, but at least they are a tasty alternative to what we are consuming today and more importantly they are supporting the total Spa industry philosophy.

Remember that food is to enjoy and to enjoy it fully there must be a balance.  The reduction of fat in a cake may mean an increase in the sugar content to ensure sufficient moisture in the end product.  So while we can get very wrapped up in the complications of Spa Cuisine, providing we come back to the basics of low fat, low sodium and low sugar we will result in a tasty meal of nutritional benefits.

Bon Appetit.

Spa Cuisine is slowly moving to the fore in our fast growing industry, however regrettably only a few chefs or proprietors have yet to see the full value of this style of cooking as an integral element and fully complimentary to the services being provided in the total mind, body and soul experience. For those far sighted chefs and proprietors that have, the basic elements of this style of cooking are simple and nothing to be feared providing you are open minded in your approach to food and not set in your ways with methods of traditional cooking. Spa Cuisine can easily be defined as low fat cooking with a low sodium and a low sugar content. (This should not be mis-read as ‘no’, but ‘LOW’. Spa Cuisine does not mean that you have to eliminate all the principals of traditional cooking, just that they need to be reviewed to a healthier format.) From this base the more adventurous Chef can then build his or her own variations including such options as low dairy and or low gluten cookery.

Taking the low fat element, many cooks and Chefs are prone to throw their arms up in fear and horror and run from this method of meal preparation as fat is seen traditionally as the major flavour carrier in our food, and without it, our food is bland and tasteless. This need not be the case, and if the fat is reduced, the flavour MUST be enhanced in other ways to counterbalance the sensory experience. The addition of palate stimulants such as fresh herbs and spices or some lemon or lime juice/zest are some of the options that can quickly elevate a dish to one of grandeur.

Even the humble ginger root (or more correctly ‘ginger rhizome’) can be used as a flavour enhancer or stimulant. This common commodity found in most Asian kitchens is used in everything from soups to salads, stir-fries and desserts and will add a little extra flavour to your cooking that may be missing because you have reduced the fat as a cooking medium. Not only with the obvious benefits to the sensory palate, but as with all dishes prepared extolling the principles of Spa Cuisine whereby the ingredients are freshly picked and raw or subjected to minimal heat, the use or addition of ginger root results in notable health benefits for the consumer, whether this is added in the fresh or dried form.

From a simple cup of ginger tea through accompaniments of pickled ginger to main dishes such as the Thai culinary specialty of ‘Pat King’ (stir-fried mushrooms with ginger) and on to ginger cake, we can consume a considerable quantity of this pungent rhizome, yet we all too often over look the greater benefits that we can experience beyond its magnificent taste.

Ginger is well known for its ability to act as an anti-inflammatory and circulatory stimulant, but ginger is also known to relieve headaches and arthritis, is an anti-nausea remedy, expectorant, antiseptic, prevents vomiting and is an antioxidant, to name a few of its many health benefits. As a cleansing herb, it has a warming effect that supports the digestive system while stimulating circulation and sweating.

The powerful enzymes in ginger increase the action of the gall bladder while protecting the liver against toxins. It can reduce the volume of acid in the stomach and prevent ulcers caused by irritants such as stress or alcohol. Ginger root (fresh or dried) is included in up to half of all herbal prescriptions in China as it is believed to decrease the toxicity of other ingredients.
Also in our regular diet, we eat many foods for traditional reasons and while there may be a religious or cultural reasoning for this marriage of foods and flavours, there can be a scientific basis for at least some of these traditions. As an example, the Japanese have been eating ginger (usually pickled) with their snacks and meals of sushi (raw fish) for centuries. Whether known by the average Japanese household or not, ginger has been proven to be effective against the possible infection by parasites which are found in raw fish, especially protozoan anisakis. So it is not only the great taste benefits of this food marriage, but also the obvious health benefits.

In fresh ginger, the pungent plant chemical gingerol is present, but this changes to an even more pungent shogaol when subjected to heat or dehydration. Both these plant chemicals contain therapeutic properties so the addition of ginger to your cooking whether fresh or dried will not only add flavour to your diet, but act as a general health tonic from which the whole family can benefit.

To ensure maximum benefits and minimum side effects, include ginger in your meal or consume after meals, and remember that ginger has been noted as a contra indicator for those who suffer from kidney disease.

Add a little ginger flavour today…..

Spa Cuisine is not a complicated style of cooking.  It is a simple healthy style of cookery that your body will thank you for.  It encompasses three basic considerations.

1. low fat
2. low salt and
3. low sugar

This is not to say that fat, salt and/or sugar must be eliminated, but just that should be reduced.  We over consume these elements in our ‘normal’ diets and we would be a lot healthier if we took the effort to review and subsequently reduce the quantity that we consume.  From these basic three elements you can expand with organic, regional and cultural elements and even expand into allergy cookery if desired, but the three fundamentals of the Cuisine must remain constant.

Thai Cuisine demands that only the freshness of ingredients be used, coupled with the tradition of a high level of intensity in flavors means that it is relatively simple to adjust many of the so called traditional recipes so that they do conform to the guidelines required of Spa Cuisine.

So with the elimination of fat as a cooking medium, all deep fried foods become taboo, but rather than eliminate these dishes, adjust your cooking technique and try cooking them in the oven instead.  For stir frying, use vegetable stock or water, just adjust the technique, and this is where it all begins – with the technique.  Look at your cooking methods differently, do not add all that extra salt and reduce your dependence on sugar and you will quickly see how easy it is to follow the principles of Spa Cuisine.

As the overall health consciousness of our society develops, so too the need to provide a more universal cuisine that is suited to today’s modern fast paced, yet all too often, inactive world.  A cuisine that will supplement and support other cuisines, yet due to the selection and treatment of ingredients shall remain unique.  Simple things like the use of the coriander roots, something that is not done in any other cuisine will ensure that Thai Spa Cuisine remains unique.

Spa Cuisine can it really be Thai?  What with all those Thai delicacies such as Som Tum (Papaya salad), Tom Ka Gai (Chicken in coconut milk soup), Pat Kapow Moo (Pork with basil), Kao Paad (Fried rice) and Kaoneow Mamuang (Mango with sticky rice) being steeped saturated fats, salts and sugars, how can these local culinary delicacies conform to the guidelines of Spa Cuisine?

Spa Cuisine by its very nature is a low fat, low salt and low sugar form of cookery.  This is not to say that fat, salt and/or sugar must be eliminated, but just that we over consume these elements in our normal diets and we would be a lot healthier if we took the effort to review and subsequently reduce the quantity that we consume. From this you can expand or specialize with concentration or development on allergy cookery and regionalized menus or even venturing into totally raw food cuisine.  Regardless, the basic three points are essential to the fundamentals of Spa Cuisine and if you then add the flavors of Thailand, then you have a winning combination from which to work.

Thai Cuisine demands that only the freshness of ingredients be used, coupled with the tradition of a high level of intensity in flavors means that it is relatively simple to adjust many of the so called traditional recipes so that they do conform to the guidelines required of Spa Cuisine.

So why is it that despite Thailand being a recognized leader in Spa Cuisine development is there still relatively few outlets that have explored this opportunity?  Will it follow true in that as the Spa industry continues to grow, then so too the interest in all aspects of the Spa culture shall grow, making Thai Spa Cuisine available to a larger audience?

While extolling the virtues of a cuisine will prove a public relations foot print, it is the Spa operators themselves that need to see the relevance of the cuisine to ensure that this unique aspect of the Spa culture is developed to its potential.  With the traditional aspects of spas in Thailand providing a unique basis for their development, coupled with the general social principles and ‘caring’ attitudes of Thai society, does it not make sense that this caring will carry through so at least some ‘post visit’ care?  After-all, whether a customer has spent five hundred baht or five thousand baht in your spa, they have at the very least started a detoxification process in the body.  It makes no sense to then effectively stop this process with the ingestion of have toxin laden foods that we ‘normally’ consume.

With Thai Cuisine being in an increasingly demanded position the world over, and Thai Chefs being exported to Thai restaurants across the globe, the further development of the cuisine as a truly healthy one, in full support of the growing spa culture in this country is surely a natural process and while few formal opportunities exist to learn this truly unique cuisine are available in Thailand, the basic skills and knowledge are available.  All that is required is for them to be put into practice, with the support of the health care fraternity.  By this, I mean the dieticians and nutritionists amongst us, who have the ‘real’ knowledge.  While the basis of the cuisine are low fat, low salt and low sugar, with virtually no formal training available to the cooks and Chefs in Thailand, until the educational process is formalized for this trade, it will fall to the dieticians etc. to guide the budding Spa Cuisine Chefs, but it is essential that the Chefs still be able to stamp their creative talents on the food, even though they may have stringent ingredient or quantity guidelines within which to work.  Some will make mistakes and stretch the established guidelines too far, but this will happen in any development.  Without the formal education opportunities the learning curve involved may well be longer than it would otherwise be, however if Spa Operators and Chefs see the truly unique position that they are in, then the few specialists that currently exist in this field will become increasingly in demand, until the knowledge base broadens and public acceptance is more general.

Spa magazines have been a major benefactor of the growth of the Spa industry, and these are looking to cover all aspects of this new lifestyle.  They seek out proponents of Spa Cuisine, or other various forms of healthy cooking but unfortunately due to ignorance of lack of resources, they often fail in their goals subsequently promoting any Chef or his cuisine that has a good public relations person working for them, or where the food just looks good.  Once these publications really understand that their education role needs to be more factual, on ALL aspects of the Spa culture, the cuisine will see a major surge in development.

Even many of the world’s hotel chains are now adding dedicated spa cuisine dishes to their menus, unfortunately often with limited guidance being given to a reluctant Chef who does not understand the principles of the cuisine, nor the possible health benefits.  Nutritional information provided to the consumer on these menus can only be seen as highly questionable at best.  As with all food preparation unless you actually understand and care about what you are doing, the end result will not be to the wider expectation.

So we know understand the potential of the cuisine, we need to explore why this a little further why it has not grown at the same rate as the spa culture.  Obviously the fact that spas are seen as comfort zones, with all aspects of comfort being catered to including that of so-called comfort foods, has resulted in the Thai Spa cuisine not earning its true place in the culinary repertoire.  As mentioned above the growing world wide demand for the simple yet intense flavors provided for by Thai cuisine means that the Chefs of Thailand are in a unique position to develop the cuisine further and to even rival the traditional standard of French Haute Cuisine.  While French cuisine remains the basis that the industry professionals of today learn from, it will take time for this to change, but now is the opportunity for this to change.

Taking a simple cooking technique such as shallow frying as traditionally taught will not enable Thai Cuisine to develop further into Thai Spa cuisine.  It will take a completely different thought process before we realize that the fats used so readily and yet widely acknowledge as being not good for our health are significantly reduced in their use in the culinary process.   With Thai cuisine like many other Asian cuisines based on the fast cooking process of a wok, the need for fats and oils as a cooking medium can be mineralized if not eliminated.  The culinary flavor bases of chicken or vegetable stock can be utilized instead of the fats and oils, with a slight technique adjustment, rendering the finished product a much healthier alternative, and more likely than not, conforming to all three rules of Spa Cuisine.

So once we have the techniques sorted, we can re-look at the specifics of the ingredients used.  With Thailand remaining an agricultural based economy, the importance of the simple pleasures in life will remain.  This means not only the physical importance of food, but also the social aspects there of.  Meals are a time when the family is most likely together in a cohesive unit with one goal in mind – the enjoyment of food and friends.  For this, flavors and textures are essential in their consideration.  Not only the hot, sour, sweet and salty flavor aspects demanded by tradition, but also the textural elements of liquids (soups), the crunch of raw salads, the pasty texture provided by the food staple of rice, the firm texture of fish and meats or the sweetness of fresh fruits.  Western cuisines provide these flavors and textures also, so why is it that Thai Cuisine has the opportunity to take this further?  Western cuisines have long been far less adventurous in their construction.  With countries as diverse as France, America, Spain, England, New Zealand, Vietnam, Hong Kong and India amongst others long having a history of association or dominance by the so-called commonwealth powers, it is obvious that any occupation would result in changes to the food served on the table either as a result of the local residents seeking acceptance or to please their ‘hosts’, this bastardization or obliteration of local cuisines has been occurring for hundreds of years and as with the degradation of the plant and animal kingdoms of the world, so our culinary traditions are also being lost.

Thailand, being one of the few countries in the world which has never been dominated by other powers, is in the unique position of being able to develop a very special cuisine, and this is what has been happening for many, many years.  With the increasing tourist trade in the country, and the ‘toning down’ of traditional dishes to accommodate the tourist palate, the cuisine needs to re-establish itself to remain a true cultural icon.  Fortunately many traditionalists are seeing this and a resurgence in restaurants committed to serve only ‘real Thai food’ are exploding across the globe, but for economic prosperity alternatives need to be considered on the local front.  This is where Thai Spa cuisine can continue to grow.  As the overall health consciousness of the society develops, so too the need to provide a more universal cuisine that is suited to today’s modern fast passed, yet all too often, inactive world.  A cuisine that will supplement and support other cuisines, yet due to the selection and treatment of ingredients shall remain unique.  Simple things like the use of the coriander roots, something that is not done in any other cuisine will ensure that Thai cuisine remains unique.

With globalization, the commitment to ensure that local and regionalized cuisines is seeing a resurgence.  Thai cuisine is no exception to this - just look at the selections of foods served in a Chiang Mai restaurant, compared to those offered in a Bangkok or Hat Yai restaurant.  And while Chiang Mai restaurants may have a Chinese influence or those in Hat Yai have a Malaysian influence stemming form centuries of co-operation, they remain uniquely Thai, without being dominated.  Chefs and Restaurateurs know that economically if they purchase produce locally it will be cheaper and their profit margins potentially greater, than if they import their product from other regions.  Thai consumers have limited access to refrigeration in comparison to the western world, so freshness is also a practical consideration, one that can be exploited further as we continue to study and understand the health qualities of the foods we eat.  With Thai Spa cuisine being cooked quickly as with traditional Thai cuisine, we know that the nutrients lost in the cooking process are minimized.  However with the added advantage of reduced fat, salt and sugar contents and couple this with the digestive qualities of the ginger and chili and the blood cleansing properties of garlic ensure that the three key ingredients to the kitchens of Thailand provide a health base to a healthy cuisine and what more could one ask for?

So as the Spa culture takes a real and long lasting hold on the society in which we live, all aspects of this culture will not doubt be analyzed and dissected repeatedly but the facts remain that Thai cuisine holds a unique place in the worlds kitchen and the potential for Thai spa cuisine to become the world leader in health cuisines remains unquestionable.

While Day Spa operators are unlikely to be at the forefront of this development due to the scale of their operations, the hotel, resort, club and destination spas with greater facilities and greater backing are more likely to be the ones that search deeper and longer in an effort to provide a service different from their competitors, and afford themselves a unique place in the market.  Free standing restaurants also have the opportunity to explore this health phenomenon like the world has never previously known.

So let’s face it, Thai Spa cuisine holds a unique place within a truly unique cuisine - one that will see major growth and development in the coming years and while it may well be those with an entrepreneurial foresight that benefit from it financially ultimately it is all of use that benefit.